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  1. #61
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    I had missed this one earlier, please dilate about Endogamy, Exogamy, Polygyny, Matrilocal Marriage or Concubinage ... and ... 21st century governance?

    btw good read Eagle #58

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    eaglethebeagle (03-20-2012)
  3. #62
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    There is no link between atheism and mass murder. There can't be, there is no logical pathway from atheism to murder, there is no religious texts to tell you how and who to hate and kill. Atheism has no cause, leaders, agenda.

    Stalin, mao didn't kill because they where atheists, they killed because they where totalitarians. I'll quote 3 people who explain it better.

    people of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.
    -Sam harris

    another thing to realize is that these reigns were not driven by Atheism, or a doctrine of Atheism; there is no such doctrine for Atheism, any more than there is a doctrine for not believing in fairies. There is no logical pathway between unbelief and violence “in the name” of unbelief. There is, however, a logical pathway between Theism and violence. Not everyone who is religious follow this pathway, in fact, most do not. Let’s be clear. Most religious people would not hurt a fly if they can help it. However, the logical pathway to violence does exist from religious doctrine nevertheless.
    -dawkins

    Steven Weinberg points out about Religion; “With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”
    -dawkins again

    If the only reason people aren't out murdering each other is because of fear of punishment from a sky fairy... then humanity is fucked.
    Last edited by gazzthompson; 03-20-2012 at 04:33 AM.

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    brightgoo (03-20-2012)
  5. #63
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    Weinberg should leave theology to the theologians. And of course Sam Harris, a self avowed atheist, and that makes money on his dogma, is not going to highlight similarities between the two. Sam Harris tries to derive values from data, which is superfulous. Where is this quote from Moral Landscape?

    I can cherrypick qoutes from Dawkins and agree, but then I feel he will contradict himself. There are different types of alcohol as there are different types of atheism, Christianity, Islamic beliefs, etc.
    "... well Colonel Straight, alls fair in love and war." General Nathan Bedford Forrest

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    eaglethebeagle (03-20-2012)
  7. #64
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    Guys...

    You trying to put a link between mass murders and atheism? What were you smoking all?

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    brightgoo (03-20-2012)
  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeInRu View Post
    Guys...

    You trying to put a link between mass murders and atheism? What were you smoking all?
    im smoking facts as in historical facts. its hard to deny history.
    It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. -Plato-
    If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter -George Washington-
    Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil-Thomas Mann-
    The more I know about people, the more I like my dog -Mark Twain-
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing -Edmund Burke-
    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves-Edward R. Murrow-
    supportwwp.org

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    brightgoo (03-20-2012)
  11. #66
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    Just because they dont openly and consciously say they are atheist does not mean they arent. So I consider Mao, Kim, Wormhole, (jk) but you get the point.
    "... well Colonel Straight, alls fair in love and war." General Nathan Bedford Forrest

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    eaglethebeagle (03-21-2012)
  13. #67
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    There is no link. Atheism has no agenda, no scripture to promote hatred or dogma. Coupled with the common examples (starlin, mao) being totalitarians, this is clearly the cause. Totalitarian has much more in common with religious values, than secular.

    They also both wore pants. Clearly the link here.

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    brightgoo (03-20-2012)
  15. #68
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    They were totalitarian regimes. ((Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible. Totalitarian regimes stay in political power through an all-encompassing propaganda campaign, which is disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by political repression, personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech, mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror.))

    Atheism is a by product of it, as tyranny is a single hand rule and a single handed control over minds. Religion offers alternative to that control and as such considered to be a threat to that control.

    All of them did those things not because they were atheists, they were atheists because they wanted a total control over their way of ruling the nation. Religion btw was used when it was needed, in USSR that is, in propaganda ways and such.

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    brightgoo (03-20-2012),gazzthompson (03-20-2012)
  17. #69
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    Very well said, much better than my response.

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    brightgoo (03-20-2012)
  19. #70
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    great point about the totalitarian governments being atheist. They then shed the blood of millions because that is part of government in those atheist countries. It isn't coincidence that the two happen together.


    I am glad you understand now right?
    It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. -Plato-
    If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter -George Washington-
    Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil-Thomas Mann-
    The more I know about people, the more I like my dog -Mark Twain-
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing -Edmund Burke-
    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves-Edward R. Murrow-
    supportwwp.org

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    brightgoo (03-22-2012)
  21. #71
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    Thumbs down here is another reason maybe reason number 1006 or something now to hate democraps

    Here is obama being tough on terror right???



    KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Five top Taliban leaders held by the U.S. in the Guantanamo Bay military prison told a visiting Afghan delegation they agree to a proposed transfer to the tiny Gulf state of Qatar, opening the door for a possible move aimed at bringing the Taliban into peace talks, Afghan officials said Saturday.
    The U.S. is considering transferring the five from the prison in Cuba to a presumably less restrictive custody in Qatar as an incentive for the Taliban to enter negotiations — though Washington has not yet outright agreed to the step, and some in Congress oppose it.
    Talks with the Taliban are seen as key to bringing some level of calm to Afghanistan, allowing American troops to come home without the country descending into further chaos. But months of efforts to cobble together talks have failed.
    Afghan President Hamid Karzai initially opposed sending the prisoners to Qatar instead of home to Afghanistan. But his government sent a delegation to Guantanamo Bay this past week to visit the prisoners, a possible sign of Karzai's consent to the arrangement.
    The five prisoners agreed to the transfer as long as they would be reunited with their families in Qatar, said two senior Afghan officials.
    A former U.S. official familiar with the negotiations over the prisoners confirmed the Afghan delegation's visit.
    All three officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
    The delegation could not have visited the prison without U.S. approval, but a spokeswoman for the White House national security council declined to comment.
    The prisoners proposed for transfer include some of the detainees brought to Guantanamo during the initial days and weeks of the U.S. invasion that toppled the Taliban government in Afghanistan in 2001. At least one has been accused in the massacre of thousands of Shiite Muslims in Afghanistan, according to U.S. and other assessments, but none are accused of directly killing Americans.
    The Obama administration does not want to send the prisoners to Afghanistan, in part for fear they might be released. The men are considered "enemy combatants" who were, at least until recently, considered too dangerous to release.
    They would likely be held in Qatar under conditions that are less secure and less restrictive than at Guantanamo.
    Afghan officials said previously that they discussed with the U.S. a plan to give Afghanistan a form of legal custody over the men if they are released as a way to satisfy their earlier objection to sending the prisoners to a third country. It's unclear whether that plan came under discussion during the recent visit or if anything was finalized.
    Several members of Congress oppose any release, and lawmakers have erected several legal hurdles that military and other officials acknowledge would slow and complicate the process.
    Several GOP lawmakers who object to the transfer have pushed the White House to keep the detainees in Guantanamo "until the end of hostilities," a U.S. official with knowledge of the negotiations said earlier this year. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss conversations with the White House.
    Of particular concern is Mullah Norullah Nori, described in U.S. military documents as one of the most significant former Taliban officials held at Guantanamo. He was a senior Taliban commander in Mazar-e-Sharif when the Taliban fought U.S. forces in late 2001. He previously was a Taliban governor in two provinces Northern Afghanistan, where he has been accused of ordering the massacre of thousands of Shiite Muslims.
    The U.S. is increasingly focused on jump-starting peace negotiations with the Taliban, especially because the country is scheduled to bring most of its combat troops home from Afghanistan by the end of 2014.
    The Taliban have agreed to set up a political office in Qatar to facilitate negotiations. But the peace process has been shrouded in rumor and uncertainty, and it's unclear how much urgency the militants feel to strike a deal given that foreign troops are on their way out.
    ____
    Gearan reported from Washington.


    http://news.yahoo.com/taliban-prison...GVzdAM-;_ylv=3
    Last edited by eaglethebeagle; 03-21-2012 at 01:31 AM.
    It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. -Plato-
    If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter -George Washington-
    Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil-Thomas Mann-
    The more I know about people, the more I like my dog -Mark Twain-
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing -Edmund Burke-
    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves-Edward R. Murrow-
    supportwwp.org

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    brightgoo (03-22-2012)
  23. #72
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    Beags, i understand now what? That atheism is part of totalitarian regime? Yeas, just like many other things. Is atheism the reason because of which they commit all those atrocities? No.

    Atheism is used for single purpose, to counter the influence of church on people, nothing else.

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    gazzthompson (03-21-2012)
  25. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglethebeagle View Post
    great point about the totalitarian governments being atheist. They then shed the blood of millions because that is part of government in those atheist countries. It isn't coincidence that the two happen together.

    I am glad you understand now right?
    They both wore pants, coincidence? I think not, this is clearly the reason (what your argument sounds like) .

  26. #74
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    Man this thread has gone from the inane to the dicking refuckuless .

    obama on a flag(thumbs down by the way)... to coronal temperatures as an explanation for God (caused mostly by magnetic reconnection) to atheism vs monotheistic belief ( ? ) all the way to atheistic totalitarian regimes being more like a religion by brandishing the carrot and the stick.

    For the love of ( add your belief here ), pick a topic and stay on it. even though i must admit there is some amusement to be had by watching a thread slip into entropy.

  27. #75
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    You gave me a good laugh this morning Veritas!
    "... well Colonel Straight, alls fair in love and war." General Nathan Bedford Forrest

 

 

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