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View Full Version : US troops shocked by kit Brits have to use, praise them



bobdina
09-07-2009, 01:15 AM
REUTERS
US troops in Afghanistan are shocked by the standard of equipment their British counterparts have to use.

Terri Judd reports from Helmand

Saturday, 5 September 2009


US Marines patrol the territory around their new base in Helmand province. They took over from British troops two months ago


US Marines patrol the territory around their new base in Helmand province. They took over from British troops two months ago

Two months ago, 4,000 US Marines descended upon the Afghan village of Garmsir in southern Afghanistan and managed to take the territory over which the British had battled over for three years. Go big, go strong, go fast, their Brigadier General, Lawrence Nicholson, had ordered – and they did.

Yet yesterday there was a notable absence of arrogance among the new inhabitants of the British military's most southerly and often most lethal front. The Marines speak with nothing but respect for those who held this ground in far fewer numbers – the British servicemen who passed, as some might say, this poisoned chalice on to them. If anything, there is muted admiration for how they coped with less equipment, particularly with their vehicles.

With roadside bombs now the Taliban's weapon of choice and the greatest threat to troops on the ground, many in Britain have been calling for greater protection for British troops.

Yesterday, the US commanders of the 2nd Battalion, 8th Marines (2/8) who now occupy Forward Operating Base Delhi spoke with admiration of the professionalism of the soldiers that they had replaced – but equally of the lack of armour on their vehicles and the fact that they had women serving on the front line.

The British Jackal vehicle could reach more sections of this inhospitable territory than the Americans' larger, heavier MRAP (Mine Resistance Ambush Protected) – which serves to point out the long-held argument that manoeuvrability is as important as protection. But the young Marines were in no hurry to swap places with the British.

"The biggest thing I noticed was the vehicles they drive. Your guys are friggin' gutsy. I wouldn't get shot at in one of those," said Corporal Aaron Helvig, 21, from Arizona.

Lance Corporal Sean Simmonds, 22, from Connecticut, was one of the first to arrive for a hand-over with the Light Dragoons battle group. "They know how to drive, that's for sure," he said of the British troops.

"They just go as fast as they can, they are not worried about being blown up. It is hard to find drivers like that. And their medics were awesome. I wouldn't mind working with them again at all."

For years in Iraq, the commonly held view was that the Americans had taken on the tougher fight in Baghdad while the southern area around Basra was the softer option. Today, no one is any doubt that the British have been fighting and dying in one of the most lethal parts of Afghanistan. Lieutenant Colonel Christian Cabaniss, the commanding officer of 2/8, praised the British efforts.

"From my perspective, they were doing all the right things," he said. "They knew what they should do, they just didn't have the resources to do it. The plan we executed on 2 July had been done before but in pieces. We just had the resources to execute it all at the same time and stay. That is the difference.

"They did everything in their power to make our transition smooth. A lot of British blood had been spilled in the south and I see our part as a continuation of their efforts."

For some of the younger Marines involved, the hand-over was the first time they had ever met a Brit and, one conceded, he had rather feared they would be somewhat stuck up.

Instead the clean shaven, fastidiously polite Marines landed in Delhi to be greeted by the sight of a bunch of "bad ass" troops in shorts and flip flops, long adapted to this searingly hot, harsh environment.

"They were easy to talk to. I didn't expect that," said Sergeant Andre Livsey, 22, from Massachusetts. "We always think the British have higher standards, would think of us as a little immature. But we found out they are just like us."

Lance Corporal Antwuan Browne, 24, from Maryland, noted that "they swore a lot", explaining: "We don't swear when there are women and officers around."

Once they got over the "incomprehensible" accents, the Marines said, they began trading in time-honoured tradition; Marines gleefully swapping Light Dragoon or Mercian Regiment T-shirts and badges for their own, or their ration packs for a British one.

"You guys have got cool ass MREs [ration packs]. That tropical drink mix, tell them they need to ship that to America," said L/Cpl Browne who confessed to a new-found love for Scotch eggs.

Most of all, they stood in wide-eyed jealousy of the fact that the British, unlike the US Marines, allow women attachments to frontline units.

"I thought it was weird how the women interacted but pretty cool and they knew just as much as the guys," said L/Cpl Simmonds.

A stunned sounding Cpl Helvig recalled:"The first day a British female soldier just walked up to the shower in a towel in front of us, took a shower and walks away."

The Stars and Stripes now flies over shrapnel pitted buildings and sandbag fortifications of Forward Operating Base Delhi. But the Union Flag has not disappeared.

The US Marines moved the flag a few feet along, to flutter above the memorial to the 14 British soldiers who lost their lives here. Soon another one is to be built next to it, this time dedicated to the 14 men that the 2/8 and attached units have already lost in the two short months that they have been here.

"This thing is because of September 11 and it is more our fight but your guys are here to help us and it is extremely appreciated. We know that not that many people would be here for the Americans and we think it is really cool the British are. We have got each others' backs," explained Cpl Helvig.

Cpl Sheffer said: "It is like a brother situation. We fight all the time but it's just for shits and giggles. Somebody outside, like Afghanistan, comes to fuck with you and you join up and kick some ass."

"Yeh," interjected L/Cpl Browne. "Like brothers in arms."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/we-pity-the-brits-the-view-from-the-marines-1782093.html

nastyleg
09-07-2009, 02:51 AM
great read

GTFPDQ
09-07-2009, 09:38 AM
Take note Gordon Brown, even the Yanks can tell you're a fucking oxygen thief, now get it right and give the boys the right toys to wage a war and be as safe as possible.

Scott
09-07-2009, 10:49 AM
wow, that was a excellent read, i particularly like that part where he said


A stunned sounding Cpl Helvig recalled:"The first day a British female soldier just walked up to the shower in a towel in front of us, took a shower and walks away."
That just made me laugh hard :lol:

i think it would be betetr if our goverment done some sort of deal with the US so they could provide the armour, i know you guys have wicked technology and have good armour both for vehicles and for troops, but that will not happen with our stupid ass prime minister.

ghost
09-07-2009, 01:20 PM
i think it would be betetr if our goverment done some sort of deal with the US so they could provide the armour, i know you guys have wicked technology and have good armour both for vehicles and for troops, but that will not happen with our stupid ass prime minister.


The British Challenger Mk2 isn't any good? From what I've heard, it's a great tank. Not only that, it uses diesel, so it gets better mileage, and it's less flammable.

bobdina
09-07-2009, 01:28 PM
The British Challenger Mk2 isn't any good? From what I've heard, it's a great tank. Not only that, it uses diesel, so it gets better mileage, and it's less flammable.

It's great but they only have 300 of them, plus he was not just talking about the tanks, those beasts don't have much use in Afghanistan. Scott is a Brit citizen who is very concerned about his troops and does not like the fact they do not have the equipment to match the great soldiers they have. The more I have read about how the U.K.(politicians) is with their military the more I am in awe of the troopers they produce .

Scott
09-07-2009, 01:52 PM
the goverment has invested millions into training grounds accross the UK for the troops, trying to make it as realistic as possible, they spend all that money and getting them trained up to their best ability yet they cannot do their job fully without having the right gear and vehicles to fullfil their full potential.

yes we jhave great tanks and aircraft, but its the ground troops that are on the frontline suffering big time, we lack in tanks and equipment over their, not to mention we have so few transport choppers in the war zone. we have vital
chinook helicopters here that are being used to take kids on out on a day trip, when they are badly needed in the war.

im a citizen in the Uk, iv'e been reading more and more in the news about our troops and watch videos to see what its like, theres on paper called The Sun which seems to be doing a better job supporting our troops that have lost limbs then the goverment, its a disgrace and makes my blood boil.

im suprised that our troops are doing such an amazing job over there as it is.

ghost
09-07-2009, 09:45 PM
the goverment has invested millions into training grounds accross the UK for the troops, trying to make it as realistic as possible, they spend all that money and getting them trained up to their best ability yet they cannot do their job fully without having the right gear and vehicles to fullfil their full potential.

yes we jhave great tanks and aircraft, but its the ground troops that are on the frontline suffering big time, we lack in tanks and equipment over their, not to mention we have so few transport choppers in the war zone. we have vital
chinook helicopters here that are being used to take kids on out on a day trip, when they are badly needed in the war.

im a citizen in the Uk, iv'e been reading more and more in the news about our troops and watch videos to see what its like, theres on paper called The Sun which seems to be doing a better job supporting our troops that have lost limbs then the goverment, its a disgrace and makes my blood boil.

im suprised that our troops are doing such an amazing job over there as it is.


Well, from what I hear/read, you guys have some great soldiers.

I'm sure the political situation is frustrating for you, and probably even more so for the troops on the ground. There's no excuse for not being able to deliver the essential equipment.

Toki
09-07-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm sure some American companies will be happy to do business with the UK.

Scott
09-08-2009, 08:08 AM
thats the thing, we have very good soldiers, but they cannot become any better then they are right now because of the lack of equipment it frustrates me, i just wish our goverment done a 1billion deal with you lot if not more and let the US make our gear for us, that would fasten the procedure up.

ghost
09-08-2009, 01:24 PM
thats the thing, we have very good soldiers, but they cannot become any better then they are right now because of the lack of equipment it frustrates me, i just wish our goverment done a 1billion deal with you lot if not more and let the US make our gear for us, that would fasten the procedure up.


American defense companies would be happy to oblige.

GTFPDQ
09-08-2009, 02:48 PM
American defense companies would be happy to oblige.

Unfortunately many people would take a cynical view of that. The UK has a good defence industry, and under the current economic conditions it would be a bitter pill to swallow to give jobs away.

bobdina
09-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Unfortunately many people would take a cynical view of that. The UK has a good defence industry, and under the current economic conditions it would be a bitter pill to swallow to give jobs away.

Plus I need to look it up but aren't you guy's required to buy British first and if there is nothing that fits the needs in Britain then you have to buy European.

GTFPDQ
09-08-2009, 03:59 PM
RANT ON

I think the UK Mil procurement policy is a balance between availability of fit for purpose and R&D for new equipment. If there is a staff requirement that can be met by a partner nation ie the US, then it might be procured from there.

The thing is, given a restrictive defence budget, the UK fields some of the best equipment in the world. Procurement sizes are so small that many projects are way too costly. If for instance the Challenger II was sold overseas in large enough numbers the per unit cost for the UK would reduce.

What needs to happen, is that the UK defence budget has to be increased to between 3.5 and 4.5% of GDP for a finite time period (say 15 years) to increase manpower (uniformed), define the military role within the world, equip to meet those roles and train to fight in those roles.

If it means the UK buys US, then fine, but the US has to see the UK as a warfighting partner and supply data, software etc to allow sovereignty of systems by the UK.

Other than the lightly armoured Snatch LR, I think the UK Forces equipment in the field is comparable and in some instances better than our allies. The problem is quantity and availability. Those two things can be remedied quickly ans effectively by a simple increase in budget and a streamlined procurement process.

RANT OVER

ghost
09-08-2009, 04:44 PM
RANT ON

I think the UK Mil procurement policy is a balance between availability of fit for purpose and R&D for new equipment. If there is a staff requirement that can be met by a partner nation ie the US, then it might be procured from there.

The thing is, given a restrictive defence budget, the UK fields some of the best equipment in the world. Procurement sizes are so small that many projects are way too costly. If for instance the Challenger II was sold overseas in large enough numbers the per unit cost for the UK would reduce.

What needs to happen, is that the UK defence budget has to be increased to between 3.5 and 4.5% of GDP for a finite time period (say 15 years) to increase manpower (uniformed), define the military role within the world, equip to meet those roles and train to fight in those roles.

If it means the UK buys US, then fine, but the US has to see the UK as a warfighting partner and supply data, software etc to allow sovereignty of systems by the UK.

Other than the lightly armoured Snatch LR, I think the UK Forces equipment in the field is comparable and in some instances better than our allies. The problem is quantity and availability. Those two things can be remedied quickly ans effectively by a simple increase in budget and a streamlined procurement process.

RANT OVER


Duly noted. The solution seems pretty simple. Why hasn't anything been done?

bobdina
09-08-2009, 05:49 PM
If it means the UK buys US, then fine, but the US has to see the UK as a warfighting partner and supply data, software etc to allow sovereignty of systems by the UK.

could not agree more.

nastyleg
09-09-2009, 04:05 AM
two heads are better than one.